Caring for Ourselves Enough to Rest: An Interview with Kayla Tsongas, MSW

For this month’s interview, we hear from Kayla Tsongas, MSW, as she shares with us about the necessity for rest in our lives as we care for ourselves.

You will find the transcript of the interview below.

Allie Ramsey:  So hello Kayla!

Kayla Tsongas: Hi Allie, how are you?

AR: Good. So you are one of the more recent clinicians to join MHT, which is very exciting -- and also just a wonderful human. We are very happy that you're here. This is kind of a fun opportunity for us to get to hear a little bit more about what makes you tick, and some of your philosophy and perspective on life, which I think will be fun to get to hear about. So, tell me Kayla, what does humanness mean at you?

KT: What does humanness mean to me - as I was reading this question before this interview I found it was such a huge question, and how do you distill down “What is humanness?” So I am just going to choose a tiny piece of what humanness means to me today. What came to mind first was just the care that we have for others and how we show up in our relationships, and how we care for ourselves and what we do to nourish ourselves. And to be able to show up in our relationships as the best person that we can be. 

And when we fall short, what do we do then? How do we repair that rupture and how do we sit and think about the ways that we want to care for people and the ways that we want to care for ourselves? 

So really mostly what came to mind for me was the caring between people within our relationships. And also in particular the care that we have for ourselves and how we care for ourselves. 

AR: Yeah, I like that. It makes me think of the art of caring and how we can learn to care in more complex ways, in different ways overtime. Can you talk a little bit about your thoughts on the human journey of learning to care?

KT: Yeah, absolutely. I think that is a lifelong journey that we are on and we're all going to walk that path through learning how to care for others and for ourselves. Learning new ways from having different experiences every day. And we compile what we have and we try and care in the best possible way that we can. And you know, throughout our life, I think that we have many different caring experiences with people who are very close to us, with our clients, with ourselves, with people that we just have a passing caring interaction with on the street. And what does it mean to you and what do you learn from each of those interactions? And how do you take that as you walk forward? That is really what I see as humanness; what do you do with what you've learned during those caring interactions, and how do you care the next time, and how is it different or how is it similar? And being able to have some capacity for self reflection on that; the ability to look inward about caring. And then after doing that, care for yourself. 

AR: Yeah, that’s the other thing that stood out to me about what you said: the caring for ourselves as part of being humans. And it is pretty special about us humans that we can have a relationship with ourselves. Can you talk a little bit about your thoughts or musings on our relationship with ourselves? 

KT: Yeah. Another big one. The relationship with ourselves. I also think that caring for ourselves is a lifelong journey and we need different things, in different ways, in different times of our lives -- and even in different days of the week and different minutes of our days. What do we need to do for ourselves? And becoming more in tune, how we learn to become more in tune with what we need, so that we can care for others. And kind of that understanding that we often don't care very well for ourselves, and that's OK. We try. We may try, but in caring for ourselves we may also fall short as we do in caring for others, and learning from that experience as well for the next time. 

AR: Yeah. The way you're talking about it, Kayla, just makes me think about how worthy a pursuit it is to care for ourselves well and care well for others, and also how important it is to extend some graciousness to ourselves in that process, because we aren’t going to get it perfect. 

KT: Absolutely.

AR: Well maybe that's connected in some ways, it makes me think of the word you chose from our series we’ve been studying as a group from David Whyte’s Consolations: Rest. Can you talk a little bit about what makes that word meaningful to you?

KT: Yeah, it's very much connected to the caring for others and caring for ourselves. I wanted to read my favorite sentence from that, because it's really stayed with me and made a large impression on me. 

“Rested we are ready for the world but not held hostage by it. Rested we care again for the right things and the right people in the right way. In rest, we re-establish the goals that make us more generous, more courageous, more of an invitation, someone we want to remember. And someone others would want to remember too.”

So in that passage the being ready for the world but not held hostage by it, how can we focus on finding that space of rest? And maybe it’s that space of caring for ourselves, where we can walk through our day and especially in our profession being clinicians, how we walk through it and live it in the moment and not be held hostage by it. I know that has been, you know, a huge process for me and learning how to try to walk through the world without it taking a hold of me and [causing] stress and anxiety in those experiences. 

“Rested we are ready for the world but not held hostage by it. Rested we care again for the right things and the right people in the right way. In rest, we re-establish the goals that make us more generous, more courageous, more of an invitation, someone we want to remember. And someone others would want to remember too”

— David Whyte

What does it mean to be rested and to care enough for myself so that I am not held hostage by the world and all the worries that exist in it? So that is one of the reasons I chose the word rest because especially during this past year and a half during the pandemic I’ve really had to focus on finding new ways to feel rested and to not feel held hostage by the world. 

And also walking through this experience with my clients has been such an incredible privilege because it's one of the only times where we're all going through the exact same thing. We may have different experiences within the larger experience, but we're all going through this pandemic together, and it can build a lot of community. It takes a large toll, and so how do we find the best possible way to get rested and to care for ourselves and take care of others during such a trying and scary time. 

AR: I like hearing you talk about the journey you've been on learning to be rested yourself and then approach the world from that place [of rest]. I can just hear as you talk about it, how meaningful that is to you. And it sounds like there is something that has kind of like opened up for you. There's a way of experiencing life and relationships that has opened up for you as you have claimed more rest for yourself.

KT: Absolutely. I have felt in the last few years my capacity opening, my ability to care for others opening, through understanding what rest is, and what rest is for me, and what rest is for the people I love, and [what rest is] for my clients. And really sitting in it and feeling into it, it's been such an incredible learning and growing experience. 

AR: It sounds like that may have something to do with how humanness shows up for you in your work as a clinician. 

KT: Yeah, I absolutely think it is so connected. Particularly, caring for others means you have to care for yourself. And if you don't care for yourself then how can you show up for other people? How can you show up in your work as a clinician if you’re not taking the time to get rest and to care for yourself? 

And then the privilege that it is to just sit with your clients and care for them and that exchange between the two of you. In opening up that compassion and being able to have a discussion about what caring for oneself looks like for each person. [Each individual’s] needs are so different. Exploring into that and exploring how a client cares for others and what they can learn about that and themselves. Creating that space of this almost circular caring, where we are caring for each other and it's creating a bigger and more connected community just by spending that time and space.

AR: Yeah, it’s kind of a positive feedback loop that can get going with that. Therapy to change the world, Kayla.  

KT: (Laughing) That’s the idea. 

“Caring for others means you have to care for yourself. And if you don’t care for yourself then how can you show up for other people?”

— Kayla Tsongas

AR: I can see how much you love helping your clients learn what helps them rest or really become rested. It’s interesting to hear you talk about how unique a process that might be for each of us.

KT: Yeah, it’s so different for every person, and getting creative and playful and finding what rest means and supporting others finding with rest means for them is a true honor and privilege. 

AR: Well, Kayla, thank you so much. It's been fun to hear some of your musings and thoughts about life and therapy. And we’re just glad you’re here, providing wonderful therapy in NELA. 

KT: Thank you so much. It's such an incredible experience to be in this community.

---

Kayla Tsongas, MSW deeply believes in the fundamentality of imagination, creativity and play for the development of children and adults alike. She invites clients of all ages to be curious about their relationships, struggles, and dreams within a framework of creativity and emotional safety. She recognizes collaboration between client and therapist as a foundational ingredient to psychotherapy – a process that is marked by deep exploration, which can potentially foster change and build resilience.

---

Allie Ramsey, LMFT has worked with individuals and families on a broad range of issues, including trauma, relational challenges, adoption, anxiety, depression, faith integration, and aging. She has training and experience in a wide variety of treatment modalities, and works to tailor her therapeutic approach to the unique needs of each client.

Music, Empathy, and Humanness: An Interview with The Brilliance

“Our entire ethos as a band is to try to create art that inspires empathy. And part of the reason we would say “art that inspires empathy,” is to be human is to also be connected to something bigger than just yourself. ”

— The Brilliance

With special appreciation to the musicians I have the gift of working with…

-Allie

---

Allie Ramsey: So, today we are talking about music and humanness from the perspective of two people who create beautiful music.

David Gungor: Thank you. 

Allie: I was hoping to talk to you on this topic of music and humanness because I think your music, in particular, is something that I go back to over and over again, in order to draw out something in me that feels small that I want to become more robust. Or to draw out something I haven’t been able to fully connect to on my own. Can relate to that, or are there other musicians that do that for you?

David: Thank you. Our entire ethos as a band is to try to create art that inspires empathy. And part of the reason we would say “art that inspires empathy,” is to be human is to also be connected to something bigger than just yourself. 

A lot of times in the West, in America, we tend to think through a Cartesian model of thinking, like, “I think therefore I am,” and it’s only about myself. Our starting point is, to be fully human is always to be a relational being. And we’re always connected to the other. In certain traditions and in certain upbringings, for instance in South Africa, you have the word “ubuntu,” which means “if you are not well, I am not well.” And our connectedness to each other and to the earth and to all of the cosmos. And so part of our band’s ethos is art that inspires empathy. Empathy towards the other will always lead to empathy back toward yourself. Because it’s connected.

John Arndt: I guess my favorite aspect of making music, and The Brilliance is a really great vehicle for this, is it’s an opportunity for me, for us to express ourselves, and to express things we are feeling or things we can’t fully understand, or things we’re struggling with. And the miracle of this process is, in doing that, we create things that somehow resonate with other people. That somehow becomes a voice and a part of their own story. And so in my life as, I am a full-time artist, I’m a full-time writer, and sometimes I’ll have these [moments of], you know, “What are you doing? You should have a salary and a mortgage, and that kind of thing.” And the thought that I have that brings me the most peace about what I’m doing and what we’re doing is, at any given moment on the planet right now, our music is resonating in different rooms. And in different peoples lives, and on some level, our music and our hopes and our dreams are vibrating in the earth and in some way - I hope - making it a little bit more peaceful and a little bit more whole. That thought of the connectedness that comes from us expressing ourselves is a miracle and I’m grateful to be able to be a part of it. 

Allie: That is really true of my experience. Your music has resonated in my soul in a powerful way. 

John: Thank you

Allie: I was curious, given that music is so powerful, and can be such an impactful way of inspiring empathy, inspiring a sense of connectedness to all of humanity, or to others who enjoy that song or piece -- what it's like for you two as artists to wield that sort of power? 

David: I think one, is there is a certain burden, and there is a certain thing where music transcends language. So like melody, if you’re drawn into it you can wrestle with an idea, and you’re feeling it first (and I know this is somewhat metaphorical) but you’re feeling it first in your body, before you’re really comprehending with your mind what’s happening. So I feel like when you have that type of thing with music, when there’s a melody and a thing that’s moving people, there is a certain responsibility to not just try to manipulate things (where you’re trying to write in a certain way that will just cause an emotional response). And a lot of times lyrically that can happen, when you’re writing something, it’s really easy to feel like you’re the hero, or you’re the person that believes the right thing, or you’re the person that controls this power. 

John: So, the huge pit fall in my life in regards to this is I’m always chasing a feeling. My favorite experiences in music, they have to do with hearing something and then having a physical response to it. And for me it's like a feeling in my chest and down my spine, I would say. In general, if I hear something that moves me, it's like a physical sensation. So for me oftentimes, the creative process is an uncovering of that sensation when I discover an idea, or a collection of sounds paired with an idea, that I experience that feeling, and I go, “Ah! This is a thing.” 

What happens when I’m pursuing that on a day to day basis, even in the process of making a song, the big pitfall in my life is becoming a feelings junky. You know, it doesn’t always feel good, and oftentimes it’s work, and how about the 300th time you listen to this same song you’re working on. Just about every song we’ve ever made has been at one point my favorite song I’ve ever heard and my least favorite song that I’ve ever heard. 

(laughter) 

And all of those perspectives on some level are valid. You put a song out there in the world, you’ve got people that go, “That song’s complete bullshit,” and they can have a perfectly valid reason for saying that, and I don’t think they’re wrong, because I’ve probably experienced that perspective too. So what’s tricky then as a result of this, is we want to make music that’s powerful, I want to make music that’s powerful, but then I also want to have a stable emotional life, not get too high, not get too low. So I don’t really have a good answer for that, but I recognize the pitfall in my life. 

Allie: Yeah, that’s so interesting. It makes the music, whatever song you’re working on, sound like its own human to me. 

John and David: Yeah.

Allie: You see all the good parts and all the bad parts. 

John: I was just talking with someone we had been working with that had been sort of offended or hurt by us deleting something. They worked on something, and then we deleted it, and we didn’t even realize, we were like, “Oh, this isn’t quite the right thing,” deleted it, and then it was kind of hurtful to her. And we ended up having this whole discussion about how in my creative life, and in every creative life, the most vulnerable thing about it is you spend all this time, and you discover an idea, maybe its a visual idea, a musical idea, whatever creative idea, and then say you’re working on a film score, working for a client, or whatever, you offer this baby up to them, and oftentimes, you’ll get a response like, “Eh, no. It needs something else, try something else.” Or, “Oh that didn’t really move me.” And you’re like, “It didn’t move you. That’s my baby we’re talking about. That’s my last -- how many hours, how many days?” It’s like, “I was just weeping over that. What the hell are you talking about?”

(laughter)

And learning how to separate yourself, because for me, there’s also this element with creativity where to get to a good idea, you often have to get through a lot of ideas that aren’t that good. But you never would have gotten to that good idea unless you actually took the pathway of these four ideas that led to each other, and all of them end up getting deleted, but they lead you to the fifth idea, which is this incredible song, and you have to be willing to have all this dead stuff you loved as part of that process.

Allie: Yeah.

“A lot of times in the West, in America, we tend to think through a Cartesian model of thinking, like, “I think therefore I am,” and it’s only about myself. Our starting point is, to be fully human is always to be a relational being. And we’re always connected to the other. In certain traditions and in certain upbringings, for instance in South Africa, you have the word “ubuntu,” which means “if you are not well, I am not well.” And our connectedness to each other and to the earth and to all of the cosmos. And so part of our band’s ethos is art that inspires empathy. Empathy towards the other will always lead to empathy back toward yourself. Because it’s connected.”

David: And I think that the most difficult thing about being a person that’s creative, and maybe this will play into relationship ideas as well, but ideas on one hand, we give them human traits, because they come from us, which is awesome. But our ideas are not us. And the reason why I think that’s important, is just like John was saying, if you throw out an idea, and someone for whatever reason rejects it, even if they’re not rejecting it because it’s bad, but just it doesn’t work right now, sometimes we feel like, “You reject my idea, you reject me.” And that’s back to that thing of, whatever your thoughts are, they’re not just you. So you have to be able, in a creative relationship, to have enough humility. And especially in a working environment, your talents and your ego -- I’ve heard this before from my dad, where he’s like, “Your ego is like your fingernails, where if it goes unchecked, it gets really gnarly. (laughter) And on one hand it's good to have some fingernails, you don’t want to have no ego. You want to have some self confidence, you want to have some sense of, “I’m worth this.” But if it goes unchecked, it gets gnarly. If you’re working with people who, [in response to] “Hey, what about this?” are just like, “You’re an idiot. You don’t know. My idea is the right idea, always.” And that’s where I’m like, there's some type of balancing act. It comes out of you, and there is an emotion, there is a baby nature of it because it comes out of you. But it’s also not just you. You are more than just your idea. 

Allie: Yeah, that makes sense. And that makes me wonder, because I know you two have been creating music together for a long time. I’m curious how you have navigated that process of creation together. What’s your collaboration like, and what is it like to go through that process with someone else? How is it for you, experiencing the creation of something that takes on a life of its own, and then sharing in the refining of that with someone else?

David: I think it's very much like any other friendship or relationship or work relationship. John and I have been friends our entire lives, since diapers, we have pictures of us doing stuff. And it’s a friendship that transcends the work relationship. Within the work relationship, we believe and love each other, but also can be honest with one another. And there have been hard times, but it’s also one of those things like in  any relationship, there needs to be communication. Sometimes we have a hard time working together, [due to] my bad communication or a misunderstanding, or not being able to talk about things. But [we also work on] fostering and encouraging what you’re good at, and knowing when to limit. So for instance, we’ve always worked from afar. And one of the things is I have to learn how to edit better in Pro Tools so that when I send John something, it's not a hot mess. And when he is honest and communicates about it in a kind way, it’s like “Oh, I really need to take time in this.” But sometimes it’d be like any other relationship where it’s “Oh, this was bad,” and “I worked so hard on this, it’s bad?!” 

John: You want me to pick up your laundry man?! You want me to pick up your laundry for you? 

David: Exactly. 

(laughter)

David: And that’s where it's like any relationship, and in any work relationship, there’s gonna be tensions, but I feel like learning how to fight well, learning how to communicate well, learning how to trust each other, encourage each other. Learning how to bring out what you do and your weaknesses and actually try to address those weaknesses. But if you ask, “Well what's the bedrock in that?” It’s our friendship! And it doesn’t have to be the only thing that defines our whole life. If John’s only thing is this friendship from a musical side of things, or a life side of things, that would be too much dependence. So there has to be a healthy independence and also a healthy [dependence]. 

Allie: Yeah, I like that. 

John: I guess the only thing I would say is any song, any album, any project is the amalgamation of hundreds of creative decisions. And so it's really important for me, whatever I can give room, where there is a creative decision I don't feel strongly about or I’m not ready to die on that hill, leave room for your collaborators to express themselves, to offer their best ideas. Like “Oh, I didn't think of that,” Or, “Oh, that’s different than what I thought, but that works!” As much as I possibly can, I am leaving space to that, so that when I get to things that are like, “This has to be, it has to be this, [for me]” it can have some weight. Because it’s really easy, especially coming from a classically trained background, there is this desire, or there is this myth that goes around about the creative genius: this sole person who has all of these amazing ideas and is the mastermind. It can be this fantasy that you can get lost in. But any person is better if they open themselves up for collaboration and editing. There is going to be improvement if you can get outside of yourself. 

Allie: Yeah. Oh that’s so interesting. I could see the draw of that kind of fantasy though, because it seems like it would feel reassuring in the process of all the vulnerability of trying to create something. 

John: Right.

Allie: Another thing I was really curious about - you spoke of the power to move emotions through music and how we start out having a bodily experience of that even before our brain can catch up with it - how do you think about the elements of music and how that impacts humans? Like beat, or I know you included a lot of orchestral elements in your most recent album. What are your thoughts on that? 

John: We grew up in a charismatic church, and my first musical education was, to say it bluntly, how certain sounds change the temperature of the room, and certain sounds can derive certain emotions. So if the pastor was talking about a certain thing, or there is a certain type of prayer meeting going on, one of [my first lessons] in musical education was how music, how certain sounds affect people. But then it was later on that I learned technique and theory and history, but yeah the first thing for me was learning how to manipulate people with music. 

David: My brothers are also both into this. And John is more educated than me on music, so I think he would be able to say it better. But there are ideas of chakras in music, where you hear a frequency, and it affects your body differently. And it is funny because, I don’t know how backed it is by science at all, it might be all pseudoscience, but it’s funny like when you hear a normal A, when someone is tuning, when they hit 440 Hz is an American A. But then you go to certain places and they do it differently. Right now in New York, some people tune to 441 Hz, which means it’s like a little bit more sharp, and it seems a little more intense, while in other music, the A, would be like 432 Hz or something. Which is a little more like chill and it affects you differently.

Allie: Oh, wow! 

John: What’s weird is if you go on YouTube and you search 432 Hz vs 440 Hz patterns, you can see in sand and in water that 432 Hz frequencies (so tuned down a little bit) actually create way more stable looking geometrical shapes in matter. Which is, I don't know what to say about that!

David: So, there are theories then on, I mean John would know this better - John, what have they traditionally said is like the saddest key? Or the saddest chord? 

John: I mean I guess it depends on your perspective. Different composers had [different thoughts], like E flat would be heroic and I think C minor might be the most tragic

(laughter)

David: Which I mean, on one end that is totally subjective, but on another end it is funny that in a way music really does move you bodily. It's an actual physical reaction.  

Allie: That’s intriguing, I love hearing your thoughts on that. Is that something that you take into account as you create different pieces? Or is it more of an intuitive process for you?

David: John how would you respond to that?

John: Would we take into account how it affects people? 

Allie: Yeah, different elements and how that affects people. 

John: I mean, I don’t know how to get anyone to listen to something let alone connect with it. But the idea comes and I’m moved by the idea, then the challenge is, how can I package this idea so there is the least amount of barrier between that idea and the people who listen to it. I find that probably most of the time, I end up getting in my own way of trying to deliver an idea. Like, maybe if I put these sprinkles on top, or I add some extra gravy, it will get down the hatch, get someone to like this idea. And it can easily be overdone. 

Allie: What is most meaningful or rewarding to you in the process of creating music right now. 

David: We’ve had stories -- there’s a person whose wife was giving birth, and the child was born not breathing. And he was totally shocked, the room was totally silent, the doctors and nurses were working on this baby, and then one of our songs from our first album came up, Breathe. And the baby breathed. And for them it was this incredibly emotional moment. 

John: There’s this big long dramatic intro, and then the first lyric is breathe. And the baby breathes.

David: So for him, that song is connected to probably his most traumatic moment but also his most intense moment of life. And there are other stories. A lot of times it’s people getting through sadness. I mean there’s some joy and there’s a lot of sadness, where people have lost loved ones or children and our music has meant a lot to them in those times. Or maybe they’ve been dealing with existential anxiety or loss of faith, or different things, where the music has gotten them through something. And that’s where you’re like, “This is so much bigger than us.” Because through the person who is engaging the music, it takes on a life of its own, and it moves from being just an idea. When it’s shared, now it really does have a life. And that life doesn’t just belong to us. And that’s where we find the most meaningful things: different stories of people engaging with the music, and it's so much bigger than us. John what would you say?

John: That is a big part, a huge gift. And our conception for making music as The Brilliance has always been: it comes from us it comes from our hearts, but it’s always connected to something bigger. So for some people at first glance the name The Brilliance is like “Oh man, sounds like we’ve got some egos here.” But for me The Brilliance has always been about something bigger than us. So whatever it is, there’s always something bigger in play. So in our lives, we’re partnering with organizations. This fall we were on a tour with Preemptive Love who do all this work in places affected by war. And World Relief, in partnership with DACA Dreamers, and we’re often involved in a mission of some kind, and that feels amazing and also makes it feel like we have a real job and are helping people. I love that. 

But then also in my life right now, I just moved to Paris, so one of my dreams about my Paris time -- and I think this has to do with my midwestern upbringing or something, I have a hard time making music if i don't feel like I’m serving something or working, there's some kind of midwestern work ethic, like, “What is this, all about yourself? You know, you’re just sitting around tinkering around, dilly dallying? You should have a mortgage by now.” That kind of thing. (laughter)

But one goal I have, outside of The Brilliance (we have a lot of music coming up, and a lot of really beautiful stuff that I’m so excited about), I really want to make something beautiful just for the sake of it being beautiful, and not connected to any outside justification, or philosophy... just a beautiful thing. I’m gonna wander around Paris and make something pretty, because I can also do that in this world. And I feel so grateful, I don't take it lightly. So I'm pursuing that as much as I can. 

Allie: Wow. Well thank you both from the bottom of my heart. It's a real privilege for me to get to talk with you.

---

The Brilliance, a band made up of long-time friends Jon Arndt and David Gungor, is an eclectic CCM/worship music duo who combine indie pop, folk, and classical elements. They released their official full-length debut, 'Brother,' through Integrity Music in 2015, which garnered critical acclaim, peaking at number 36 on the Billboard Christian Albums chart. 'All Is Not Lost,' the duo's much-anticipated sophomore Integrity release, arrived in 2017, this time reaching number 20 on the Christian chart and breaking into the Heatseekers chart as well. In 2018, the Brilliance turned their creative attention to politics -- specifically DACA and the plight of the undocumented DREAMers facing deportation in the U.S.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Home: That Feeling of Comfort

This November, MHT is participating in the Miry’s List Friendsgiving Fundraising Drive. The money goes to programs that support refugee families that have been resettled in the United States. In tandem with these efforts, our clinicians are writing posts reflecting on what home means to them.

“I was struck by something Miry [Whitehill] shared with us at Michelle Harwell Therapy when she came to tell us about how Miry’s List works: the importance of the color of the sheets.”

I was struck by something Miry [Whitehill] shared with us at Michelle Harwell Therapy when she came to tell us about how Miry’s List works: the importance of the color of the sheets.

Miry’s List helps families get set up with essential household items, like sheets and towels and backpacks. All of these kinds of things are necessary for getting life started - but Miry reflected with us about the way little details, like getting to choose a familiar color of sheets, can sometimes bring back a breath home. And so Miry’s list partners with each family in a very individualized way to create household wishlists, complete with these kinds of details, that will help families get started with making a new home here in LA.

This resonated with me and I thought about how much sensory kinds of things contribute to my own sense of being at home. Smells and flavors and familiar objects contribute to this sensory-texture of home.

These socks, in particular, I love to wear at home. To me, they represent comfort at all levels - they are cozy and happy and sorta weird. There is a kind of internal rest and safety I step into whenever I pull them on.

This Thanksgiving season, as we fundraise with our new neighbors in mind, I am grateful for the small but mighty contributions of little details, like familiar sheets or socks, to give us a sense of being where we belong.

---

HERE'S HOW YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN FRIENDSGIVING WITH US:

Give! Visit our Miry’s List campaign page and make a donation. It's that simple and no sum is too small. Truly.

Follow! Be sure to follow us on Instagram and our blog throughout the month of November. We will be reflecting on what it means to be welcomed, received, and known.

Share!  Help us spread the word. You can do this by sharing our social media posts or links to our Miry’s List Friendsgiving Fundraiser page.

******

A little about Miry’s List:
Refugee families come to the United States seeking a safe haven from violence and persecution in their home countries. They leave behind family and friends, as well as virtually everything they own. Many Americans, seeing these families in their communities, wonder: What can I do to help? Miry's List provides a mechanism for people to directly help new arrival refugee families with the things that they need to get started in their new lives – from diapers to beds to cleaning supplies and toiletries. To learn more, visit miryslist.org.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Spirituality as Process

Maybe you, like me, sometimes wonder what spirituality really consists of. How can anyone really understand or know this realm of reality that transcends, but is inseparably involved with, the material? My thought is it’s not quite knowable. Or maybe better put, it’s not ‘master-able’ by our methods of knowing. It’s the kind of thing that can’t be all-the-way understood or written about comprehensively in a textbook.

And yet, there is something concrete about spirituality -- that is, it seems that a full-hearted seeking after spiritual life, truth, and goodness does bring about significant change over time. Sometimes in quiet ways inside of individuals and sometimes in powerful and surging ways that had seemed impossible.

My own life has felt rather upended by my spiritual experiences at certain times. To be honest, that is probably what I most want -- and simultaneously am most afraid will happen. There are also times my spiritual life has felt dry, so dry it’s made me think, “What if this is a desert, and all those memories of abundant, vibrant liveliness were only ever mirages?”

“Maybe you, like me, sometimes wonder what spirituality really consists of.
...My thought is: it’s not quite knowable.”

Lately I’ve been considering a new thing, for me, regarding spirituality. And that is the importance of “process over content.” (We talk about this quite a bit in therapy training. It’s a foundational goal of therapists to learn to pay attention to the pattern of things that are playing out, rather than attending only to those things that are explicitly named or spoken about in the moment). 

Applying this to my own Christian spirituality has meant learning to pay attention not only to the words of Jesus on the topic of spirituality, but also to his process -- the overall pattern of life he lived out as an example of cultivating a spiritual life. His times of solitude, service, prayer, fasting, and teaching are all different parts of the important picture of his spiritual process. As I’ve reflected on this, I have been challenged to be honest with myself about my own spiritual “process.”  What are my patterns of action and inaction? What do my actions show my spirituality is really about? To put it to a sciency metaphor that appeals to me: What’s the “center of mass” of my way of living? The answers to these kinds of questions left me feeling discontent and hungry for more in my life. That turned out to be a transformative place to start.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist who works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Failure: An Expected Guest

“...losing taught me freedom. ”

When I was in college, I was a sprinter (for you track fans out there, the 400m dash was my main event). Many, many training sessions, pairs of shoes, taped feet, and ice baths later, one of the most valuable things I gained was getting used to failure.

I’m actually pretty competitive, so don’t be misled into thinking I don’t care about winning. (Ha!) But while the drive to win taught me discipline, confidence, and focus, losing taught me freedom.

Regular public failure required me to develop a sense of security beyond success, and once I had it, I was able to freely find the edge of my capacity and risk stepping beyond it.

In my post college years, I have looked back on my experience with failure in athletics as a season of “training wheels.” The risks and failures I ventured into in that season had few real world consequences.

“...I was able to freely find the edge of my capacity and risk stepping beyond it.”

These days, I find that my failures often carry a much bigger ripple effect, affecting the lives of those I care about. It’s challenged me to again develop a sense of security beyond perfection. Really, no system that depends on me to be perfect is very secure, though I think it can have that illusion. “If I could just perform perfectly, things will be alright in my own life and the lives of those I care for.”

But really, things became much more secure when I got honest with myself and others about the reality of failure as part of my existence and my best efforts to help. That honesty allowed me to think of responding to my own failures as part of “normal life.” Not something to be rigidly prevented or defended against, but allowed in as an expected guest.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Women are Weird

“We’re a little too alive to be contained by some static definition! ”

Photo by Even Keel Imagery - Miriam Brummel

What does it mean to be a woman? That question will never be fully answered, and I like that. Of course, women share certain experiences, and on the whole, some common traits that we've come to label as "feminine." But unique or unusual experiences and traits spring out of us as well. We're a little too alive to be contained by some static definition!

I love that about being a woman. If there is a definition to what it means to be a woman, it's constantly being further defined or even redefined. And I think it's pretty cool to be part of that defining process. I am grateful for the legacy of women who've gone before me and were willing to be weird enough that they challenged our definition of womanhood. They stretched out the definition to give us a bit more room to roam about and find our potential. When they were willing to be weird ladies, they made it a little easier for us to be weird too. Thanks weird women. What a delightful bunch of marbles we all are!

---

HERE'S HOW YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN DRESSEMBER WITH US:

Give! Visit our Dressember page and make a donation. It's that simple and no sum is too small. Truly.

Follow! Be sure to follow us on Instagram and our blog throughout the month of December. We will be documenting our fierce fashion choices but our deepest intention is to empower and educate.

Share!  Help us spread the word. You can do this by sharing our social media posts or links to our Dressember fundraising campaign page.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

The Delights of Nature

How delightful are these ornamental corn cobs? If you could pick one up and hold it in your hands, you’d get to feel the texture of the bumpy kernels, smooth and knobbly, you’d notice how glossy and bright each kernel appears, and if you looked closer, you’d see the amazing depth of color trapped beneath the surface of each membrane, the hues of red, purple, and blue. Each kernel is like a rare gem - a cob like a chest of rubies and sapphires!

As an adult I don’t take the time to soak in the details of nature like this very often. My delight in these corn cobs (and the imaginative lens to see them as gems) is a remnant from my childhood. When I was about 9 to 12, I used to become completely absorbed in studying the five or so ornamental corn cobs my mom would set out as part of the fall decor every year. I remember feeling a sense of wonder studying these corn cobs, amazed at how beautiful a vegetable could be! (Ha!)

Maria Montessori, whose philosophy of education is popular today, was a careful observer of children and how they learn, especially in nature. She noticed that when children are given time to freely explore the natural world, they often become instinctive students, natural scientists, absorbed in the details of grass, bugs, rocks and so on. And beyond showing impressive attention and observational skills, she noticed the emotional effect that this kind of time out in nature tended to have on them as well - the way they seemed to grow more fulfilled, happy, and serene.  

I think it’s fair to say it can have a similar effect on us as adults, too! This fall, whether its with your kids or your own inner kid - I hope you’ll make it outside to enjoy the sights, smells, and textures of nature.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Therapist. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Yummm....Tasty Musings

It wasn’t until I arrived at Yale my freshman year that I really realized that Subway was not a “nice” restaurant.

This memory always makes me smile these days, but really, I think there was something about that surprising “Aha” I had as an 18-year-old that has stayed with me. It captures something of the widely varying perspectives we bring to food, and how those perspectives influence us.

Food is a display of our cultural backgrounds, our socioeconomic status, our values. If you and I share a meal that I love together, and my food signals something different than yours, I think we undergo something sacred, but perhaps quite fragile as well. There is a “getting to know you” going on in those moments. The capacity for both recognition and rejection is high. 

For being the center around which hospitality often orbits, food can be a rather centrifugal force that flings us quite far away from one another. I think the problem is, we can forget to pay attention to just how much is at play when we eat together (or even talk about eating!). The foods we presume to have in common, and our response to that which we don’t have in common, sets the stage for how well we will recognize one another. 

At the same time, what a bond comes from being able to learn we share a favorite dish or restaurant! And how vulnerable and affirming to share a favorite meal of mine with someone who has never tasted it before, knowing they are interested in it because of me. 

What do your favorite food memories say about you?

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern, IMF #94391, working under the professional supervision of Michelle Harwell, PsyD, MFT 50732. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Women of Style: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

“I don’t sit in the back.”

— Ruth Bader Ginsburg

To my mind, a lady of style can be very much herself, while making room for the people around her to be themselves, too. 

I admire this trait in Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She’s a lady with an opinion, and a whole lot of passion. She has enough skill that she’s landed in the highest court of our country. And yet, in all of the strength with which she holds herself, she is not consumed by the power of her own voice. I see this in the way she cultivated a rich friendship with the late Justice Scalia, whom she often fiercely opposed professionally. I see this in her humor in the midst of such serious work, such as her habit of wearing a “dissent collar,” the same glass bead necklace that she dons whenever offering an opposing opinion. 

I also admire that RBG is able to be herself, even when that falls outside of what others would expect. For example, even in her 60s and 70s, she was found parasailing and whitewater rafting. She’s quoted as saying, “I don’t sit in the back,” when encouraged to ride in the safer seat on one such boat ride. 

Now that’s style. 

View fullsize

---

HERE'S HOW YOU CAN PARTICIPATE IN DRESSEMBER WITH US:

Give! Visit our Dressember page and make a donation. It's that simple and no sum is too small. Truly.

Follow! Be sure to follow us on Instagram and our blog throughout the month of December. 

Share!  Help us spread the word. You can do this by sharing our social media posts or links to our Dressember fundraising page.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern, IMF #94391, working under the professional supervision of Michelle Harwell, PsyD, MFT 50732. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

Humans of MHT: An Interview with Laura MacRae-Serpa

Our Humans of MHT series continues this month by spotlighting Laura MacRae-Serpa as she shares her love of learning and play with fellow intern Allie. 

Allie: Okay, so hi Laura, I'm so excited that I get to interview you. It was all random, who interviewed who. And it feels very special to me to get to talk with you about humanness and about your work as a therapist, I think, because you're someone who –  as a therapist and a human – I admire a lot.

Laura: Thank you, Allie.

A: I feel like you do such a amazing job of making the heart connection with people, but also just being extremely skilled and knowledgeable. Sometimes people have one of those [capacities] more than the other and I feel like you have both in abundance so it's um -

L: Thank you, I feel the same way about you.

A: Thank you. So, I'm curious, I want to hear about your picture in our humans of MHT photo series. I'm especially curious about your goggles picture. What's going on with your goggles?

L: Soap making. So that's one thing I like to do as a hobby is make soap. And you have to use lye at one point, so you have to protect your eyes, wear gloves, and you get to look like a scientist for a moment (laughter).

A: That's so fun! So you enjoy the lye process in particular then? Is that why you picked the goggles?

L: (laughter) Yes I do. I like taking anything and mixing it. So, soap making, baking, you know, a lot of things that children play with – I just enjoy that process.

A: You like having different ingredients, that you're putting into the pot –

L: Anything I can mix together in a pot, and see what it comes out as, I like.

A: Yeah, I love that. Um, well, lye is a really fascinating one to think about too, because it's poisonous, right?

L: Yes (laughs).

A: So, but there you are, creating something very nice and healthful.

L: Yes I am.

A: Do you feel like there any, like how do you make sense of that maybe even metaphorically: The mixing of the lye into your pot to make soap, and you like mixing all different kinds of things together in play or in therapy?

L: Yeah, I think symbolically, when we think about pieces of ourselves, you know, we mix the good in with the not-so-great. Or what we perceive as not so great. But you know I think it's the sum of the parts that create the whole, which obviously, you know, the end result can be a beautiful thing.

A: Mmm.

L: A valuable, worthy thing.

A: Mmm, yeah, I like that. That's kind of an interesting comment, you slipped in there – just the parts that we maybe think are less valuable

L: Right.

A: What what do you mean by that?

L: I think sometimes our vulnerabilities, sometimes the pieces of ourselves that we hide, or feel we have to hide or protect from from other people are actually the parts of ourselves that are the most human. You know, our flawed self, or like I said, what we perceive as flawed

A: Hmm.

L: When we have a relational experience where we can actually share some of the parts maybe that we're less proud of, when those are received and accepted, it can be a very powerful experience.

A: Hmm.

L: There's risk in that, of course.

A: Yeah, kind of beauty from ashes sort of experience to have something like that turn into something beautiful in a relationship. Yeah, like that. I like thinking about lye as the – I'll think of that for myself next time I'm not sure. “Well maybe this'll turn into something like soap. (Laughter).

“...I really believe in change. That we can all change. I consider myself a lifelong learner, so I feel like if I’m always sitting in that space and place with my clients, that I mean, I am learning as well. I’m growing as well.”

A: Well, tell me a little bit about your humanness as a therapist. How do you feel like your humanness shows up in your sessions and and who you are as a therapist?

L: I think most importantly I really believe in change. That we can all change. I consider myself a lifelong learner, so I feel like if I'm always sitting in that space and place with my clients, that I mean, I am learning as well. I'm growing as well. And I think since I have such a powerful belief in just humans ability to be resilient, I carry that hope and that kind of strength-based energy with me into the room.

And play as well. Creativity and just making a little bit of space for play.

A: Yeah I think those – maybe your learning posture, which shows up perhaps more consistently with you than anyone else I've met, which is amazing because you already know a lot – but also your love of play, feel like two pretty special things about you. So that makes sense. Those are things that kind of mark your humaness as a therapist.

I actually wanted to ask you a little bit about about play, because you are such a skilled play therapist, and I know that you really love play. I think you've said to me that you just, you like play.

L: I do. (laughter)

A: It's a good job for you! But I'm kind of curious, what you what sort of thoughts you have, if you can condense them down into a minute or two, of how how play can be leveraged for healing. I don't think we always are used to thinking about it that way. But my goodness, you do that so effectively so what are your thoughts about how that works?

L: I think play is children's work. It's how they process their world. It's how they you know try on their different parts, different selves. And often how they share. I think it creates safety. You know when I think about a play in a relationship, it creates safety. It's a mask almost. Not always, but sometimes it's a mask where the person feels a little safer to share or test or explore. So I think the potential for growth with play is unlike any other type of therapy, actually.

And I think that's why it's important to include play in our lives as adults. You know, however that's manifesting in your life. Whether it be team sports, or hobbies, or just giving yourself that freedom of creative process, it can be a powerful change agent and growth.

A: Yeah, the idea of a mask makes me think of play as providing a little bit of a buffer between the most like vulnerable parts of us and whatever it is that we're trying to learn to interact with.

L: Yeah.

A: And then that brings about safety that allows maybe for more growth than could happen if it was made maybe quite so explicit what we were doing. That would make it scarier, yeah.

L: Yeah, it feels a little safer, I think. I agree, just to kind of have it – it's almost like walking beside the experience and then processing it with someone else kind of beside to you, before you have to take that and integrate it.

A: Hmm, you're kind of trying things on, but it's not yet. Doesn't have to be you. Until you find out if it fits, maybe.

L: Yeah.

A: Interesting, I like that.

Um, well what about this huge question: What does humanness mean to you? How do you think about that?

L: Resiliency is the big one that comes to mind. I tend to think of the positive definition of humanness. I think of empathy, relationship building, our ability to be connected and to really feel each other's experiences. But within the resiliency, you know, it includes those darker experiences. Or the, the lye, shall we go back to that. (laughs) The parts of ourselves that maybe are harder to share. I think humanness is also very much about those parts and really allowing our relationship with those parts to ourself, so that we can kind of share relationally with other people in a very authentic way.

A: Mm-hmm. Yeah, do you feel like that those two things interact? Resiliency and being able to share the lye, the less desirable, or what we perceive as less desirable, inside of us?

L: I do. I think when we walk through or move through an experience that's difficult, yeah it's it's being a little more gritty. It's being able to maybe risk, because we're sitting comfortable in our sense of self, and we've had that relationship with all of our parts, so to speak. You know, and whether that includes acceptance, forgiveness, understanding; I think it then allows us to grow, be a little bit braver. I think it allows us to accept those parts in others too.

A: Mm-hmm.

L: You know, instead of just stepping into something with maybe an ideal that isn't attainable. I think sometimes it's the real pieces of people that we connect the most to.

A: Mmm, yeah, something that is maybe less ideal but actually ends up being better, or more special to us.

L: Yeah, I think it's relatable. And I always feel, with all of my clients, just a sense of respect for the courage it takes to step into therapy and look at those experiences. And you know the willingness to kind of explore just who they are, and maybe where they want to be, it's a very courageous process.

A: Well those are profound thoughts Laura, thank you for sharing.

L: Thank you, Allie.

A: Yeah, it's been so fun to interview you in our mini interview series. So, we'll sign off now. But thank you, and I'll get to talk to you soon (laughter).

---

Laura MacRae-Serpa, MFTI, CCLS has special interests in supporting children and families navigating adoption and the challenges of chronic illness.

---

Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern, IMF #94391, working under the professional supervision of Michelle Harwell, PsyD, MFT 50732. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging.