The following interview was conducted in early December 2020.
Maria Elena Marquez: What inspired you to become an art therapist?
“I guess when I went into the field, I knew I would be facing lots of trauma and lots of other things to deal with. But for some reason, it never crossed my mind that I’d also be dealing with politics and how that will intersect. ”
Salina Cobbin: I was taking a creative writing course at UCLA Extension. At the time, I was interested in writing and exploring that. We would get assignments and with every assignment we did, although it was all fiction, I would see a piece of myself in my writing or a part in the story even though it wasn’t my intention [to insert myself]. I started to realize that writing truly is a form of art — and in every form of art is a piece of you. Whether you’re intending to or not, whatever you create ends up being a representation of your self — it is still a representation of your self. Soon I started to think about how cool it would be to have a studio where people are creating art and then there’s a professional that comes around to help guide you and support you. I thought I invented art therapy (laughs). And then I started Googling things and found out that it is a real practice; a real, existing profession. (laughs). I looked into it further, and I went to various orientations for grad programs. The school that I ended up going to was less than 7 minutes away from my house at the time. I thought it was all meant to be. Meant to be. That is kinda how I landed in art therapy.
Maria Elena: I love your story! So, through the creative writing process, you felt like you really could see parts of yourself. Through that viewing of your self, you were able to imagine things and you thought of a studio where people could engage in their own creative processes.
Salina: Yeah, a place where people could express themselves freely and create art. I imagined someone trained a bit more in psychology who could guide people through self-discovery and art-making. I thought about the importance of it being a community space. I wasn’t initially thinking ‘a therapist’ necessarily…I thought I could figure this out and do it myself. But then I discovered art therapy and it clicked — “Oh, this is a real thing!”
Maria Elena: What about that initial dream of creating a community space for self-discovery do you feel like you presently hold on to?
Salina: I guess I’ve distanced myself from that idea of a community space right now because I’m looking at my goals that are right in front of my face. While working in agencies and in my own private practice, I’ve been trying to fine tuning the demographic that I want to work with… which I do feel like I’ve been able to do. Because I’m such a methodical person, once that is off the list, then I can work towards something that feels like an even bigger vision.
Maria Elena: So, you’re fine-tuning your understanding of the population that you’re most able to serve…the population that you really enjoy working with…so what does that look like — what is that population?
Salina: In the beginning of my career, I went into it thinking that I wanted to work predominantly with at-risk youth. But I’ve learned that I work better with adults. I really like working with people of color and working on how all these different parts of your life shape your identity…whether it’s past traumas, your ethnic background, or different experiences. I think it’s this whole idea of identity that I’m noticing I gravitate towards. I think because I’m bi-racial identity has always been a topic in my life. It’s something that I really love. But also I think it’s important to understand what kind of things shape us and how they impact our relationships to others…and how you see where you fit in and where you don’t fit in.
Maria Elena: Yes, I can see parallels between what you’re saying and how I enjoy working with single Latina women who are searching for their sense of self in their careers, their sense of self in romantic relationships, or their sense of self or adulthood with their parents. Often there’s trauma or intergenerational trauma involved. When you find that population that is such a match for your personal and professional experience, it kinda feels like home.
Salina: It’s comforting and it’s also inspiring. I feel like when I’m with the clients that are such a great match, it’s really inspiring.
Maria Elena: Yes! Okay, let’s shift gears. How have you been taking care of yourself during this time of the COVID pandemic? I know in the beginning, I was shocked. I was terrified…it was hard to grapple with taking care of my self while also being a therapist. And I felt so isolated from my friends and family that I normally lean on for love and support. But now I’m feeling more settled. I’m wondering how that process has been for you…maybe because you’re a planner it was less of a struggle…How was it? And now how are you doing with it all compared to the beginning?
Salina: Right, yeah. In the beginning, it was very shocking. All of a sudden, we had to pick up our things and go home. We didn’t have a lot of time to plan, which, yes, planning is kinda my thing. I mostly went into a mode of trying to be very structured. Structure is comforting for me. I did find that because I was so focused on setting up new structures that I wasn’t really addressing the underlying stress and other emotions that were coming up. Instead I was focused on the structure. And when I wasn’t or couldn’t stick to the structure, then I’d get upset. I realized a lot about myself — with all this change that happens (and change that isn’t coming from myself), that it causes me a lot of stress. I’m learning a lot more about just letting things be….and learning to stop fighting against the change. It stills comes up but this stance has helped decrease some of the stress. In the beginning, it was all change, change, change…work structure change, changing work policies, going virtual. I was just like “I don’t wanna do that!” But my resistance to change was making me even more upset. Also trying to work it out first…and then it if doesn’t work, complain later. This has been a big one for me. And also trying to connect with some people…mostly with family and with one of my cousins in particular. It’s been very different though just staying at home. Learning to be bored and being okay with being bored. That’s also been big in helping me cope. I try to do exercises here and there…a little inconsistently. And accept that things are a bit of a mess right now. That was a long answer!
Salina Cobbin, LMFT
Maria Elena: What are some things that you accomplished this year that you’re proud of? I know that 2020 has been a difficult year and it’s tough to think of the good when things are so challenging and when things we had in mind for ourselves have slowed down or been interrupted…but yeah, what are you proud of?
Salina: Becoming licensed. That was a big accomplish this year! It’s true that I don’t really focus on the good as much. On a self-care, I’ve been mindful of eating and sleeping — and regulating that stuff…and finding ways to put self-care at the forefront. I think I’m doing much better with that. Hmm..I think also trying to figure what direction I’m going into, career-wise. I was confused for awhile. And now I know what to move more and more into private practice.
Maria Elena: I would also like us to talk about politics given that 2020 was so marked by social, cultural, and political change and upheaval. I wonder what the white person reading this might better understand from the clients (people of color) that you work with — that your clients might be hurting and yet also proud to be who they are. This feels really important. I’m not sure where to begin but what are your thoughts?
Salina: Yeah, it does feel important. There’s a lot to say. I guess I’ll start here…I have been reading this book recently and the topic is related to the current social climate and specifically with racial injustices and the Black Lives Matter movement. It talks about this whole idea of racism and how a lot of people who don’t understand are like ”Okay we get it, just move on…Why are you still reacting this way? Why are you still hurt? Why are you continually bringing up racism?”…this idea that slavery and therefore, racism is in the past. This book was talking about how in this country, it has never really been acknowledged…it has always been something swept under the rug, which differs from Germany. In Germany, they have actually acknowledged what happened to the Jewish people during the Nazi regime. The country has taken down statues that are offensive from that era. In America, they just don’t. It feels like it’s offensive in the US to even bring up taking down a confederate statue. There was a reference in the book that spoke to therapy…when you go to therapy, a therapist isn’t gonna tell you “Forget about the past.” No - we need to address what’s happened in the past in order to make changes. You would really do some damage as a therapist if you were to deny that past for someone. I think that is happening for a lot of people. The denial is damaging — it translates to “You’re not hearing me, you’re not understanding me, and you don’t care.” It does bring up a lot of feelings for people [of color]. That’s the first thing I wanted to say.
Maria Elena: What’s the title of the book that you’ve been reading?
Salina: It’s called Caste by Isabel Wilkerson. Along with it, I was listening to the podcast that Oprah did with her. It’s very informative.
“We need to address what’s happened in the past in order to make changes. You would really do some damage as a therapist if you were to deny that past [full of racial injustices] for someone. I think that is happening for a lot of people. The denial is damaging — it translates to ‘You’re not hearing me, you’re not understanding me, and you don’t care.’ It does bring up a lot of feelings for people [of color]. ”
Maria Elena: That’s so powerful - to give a space of healing to your clients and to allow them a space to say “My pain hasn’t been acknowledged. My ancestors’ pain hasn’t been acknowledged…and that’s why it’s still deeply embedded in me. And this country that I love and that should be free for all of us hasn’t acknowledged that.” It’s such a difficult time in our history to be a therapist but also what an honor. That’s so powerful.
Salina: Right, absolutely. I guess when I went into the field, I knew I would be facing lots of trauma and lots of other things to deal with. But for some reason, it never crossed my mind that I’d also be dealing with politics and how that will intersect. Like you said, it is an honor. I also feel like I’m learning along with my clients. It’s nice to know that “Wow, this person feels safe enough to express this and also, thank goodness, because there aren’t many safe spaces, unfortunately, for all people without being invalidated or told that ‘Okay, we get it but….’”
Maria Elena: Right, and sometimes even unintentionally a white therapist might feel uncomfortable and then quickly change the subject about race…and then the invalidation or denial is happening again and now with the person that I’ve told my deepest, darkest thoughts to. So, it’s amazing to see you…a woman who is an art therapist and a licensed marriage and family therapist, a woman who is bi-racial in this field. You can hold that and someone can say and be like “me too.” It might not even be said, but it is felt.
Salina: Clients will comment “I don’t have to change the way that I speak when I’m in the session with you…because it’s not coming off as threatening or slang…it’s just the way that I speak with you.” It’s pretty cool.
Maria Elena: You’re amazing! Thank you so much for talking with me today.
Salina Cobbin, LMFT, is an art therapist with a private practice in Studio City. She has personal and professional experience working with identity issues that arise for multi-ethnic/multi-cultural individuals, families, and single parents.
Maria Elena Marquez, MA, is a bilingual (Spanish-English) Associate Marriage and Family Therapist, IMF #103470, working under the supervision of Brittany Kiko Reimann, LMFT. As an art therapist, Maria is passionate about helping clients unravel complex cultural beliefs and family pressures through the use of expressive arts.
