Humans of MHT: An Interview with Laura MacRae-Serpa

Our Humans of MHT series continues this month by spotlighting Laura MacRae-Serpa as she shares her love of learning and play with fellow intern Allie. 

Allie: Okay, so hi Laura, I'm so excited that I get to interview you. It was all random, who interviewed who. And it feels very special to me to get to talk with you about humanness and about your work as a therapist, I think, because you're someone who –  as a therapist and a human – I admire a lot.

Laura: Thank you, Allie.

A: I feel like you do such a amazing job of making the heart connection with people, but also just being extremely skilled and knowledgeable. Sometimes people have one of those [capacities] more than the other and I feel like you have both in abundance so it's um -

L: Thank you, I feel the same way about you.

A: Thank you. So, I'm curious, I want to hear about your picture in our humans of MHT photo series. I'm especially curious about your goggles picture. What's going on with your goggles?

L: Soap making. So that's one thing I like to do as a hobby is make soap. And you have to use lye at one point, so you have to protect your eyes, wear gloves, and you get to look like a scientist for a moment (laughter).

A: That's so fun! So you enjoy the lye process in particular then? Is that why you picked the goggles?

L: (laughter) Yes I do. I like taking anything and mixing it. So, soap making, baking, you know, a lot of things that children play with – I just enjoy that process.

A: You like having different ingredients, that you're putting into the pot –

L: Anything I can mix together in a pot, and see what it comes out as, I like.

A: Yeah, I love that. Um, well, lye is a really fascinating one to think about too, because it's poisonous, right?

L: Yes (laughs).

A: So, but there you are, creating something very nice and healthful.

L: Yes I am.

A: Do you feel like there any, like how do you make sense of that maybe even metaphorically: The mixing of the lye into your pot to make soap, and you like mixing all different kinds of things together in play or in therapy?

L: Yeah, I think symbolically, when we think about pieces of ourselves, you know, we mix the good in with the not-so-great. Or what we perceive as not so great. But you know I think it's the sum of the parts that create the whole, which obviously, you know, the end result can be a beautiful thing.

A: Mmm.

L: A valuable, worthy thing.

A: Mmm, yeah, I like that. That's kind of an interesting comment, you slipped in there – just the parts that we maybe think are less valuable

L: Right.

A: What what do you mean by that?

L: I think sometimes our vulnerabilities, sometimes the pieces of ourselves that we hide, or feel we have to hide or protect from from other people are actually the parts of ourselves that are the most human. You know, our flawed self, or like I said, what we perceive as flawed

A: Hmm.

L: When we have a relational experience where we can actually share some of the parts maybe that we're less proud of, when those are received and accepted, it can be a very powerful experience.

A: Hmm.

L: There's risk in that, of course.

A: Yeah, kind of beauty from ashes sort of experience to have something like that turn into something beautiful in a relationship. Yeah, like that. I like thinking about lye as the – I'll think of that for myself next time I'm not sure. “Well maybe this'll turn into something like soap. (Laughter).

“...I really believe in change. That we can all change. I consider myself a lifelong learner, so I feel like if I’m always sitting in that space and place with my clients, that I mean, I am learning as well. I’m growing as well.”

A: Well, tell me a little bit about your humanness as a therapist. How do you feel like your humanness shows up in your sessions and and who you are as a therapist?

L: I think most importantly I really believe in change. That we can all change. I consider myself a lifelong learner, so I feel like if I'm always sitting in that space and place with my clients, that I mean, I am learning as well. I'm growing as well. And I think since I have such a powerful belief in just humans ability to be resilient, I carry that hope and that kind of strength-based energy with me into the room.

And play as well. Creativity and just making a little bit of space for play.

A: Yeah I think those – maybe your learning posture, which shows up perhaps more consistently with you than anyone else I've met, which is amazing because you already know a lot – but also your love of play, feel like two pretty special things about you. So that makes sense. Those are things that kind of mark your humaness as a therapist.

I actually wanted to ask you a little bit about about play, because you are such a skilled play therapist, and I know that you really love play. I think you've said to me that you just, you like play.

L: I do. (laughter)

A: It's a good job for you! But I'm kind of curious, what you what sort of thoughts you have, if you can condense them down into a minute or two, of how how play can be leveraged for healing. I don't think we always are used to thinking about it that way. But my goodness, you do that so effectively so what are your thoughts about how that works?

L: I think play is children's work. It's how they process their world. It's how they you know try on their different parts, different selves. And often how they share. I think it creates safety. You know when I think about a play in a relationship, it creates safety. It's a mask almost. Not always, but sometimes it's a mask where the person feels a little safer to share or test or explore. So I think the potential for growth with play is unlike any other type of therapy, actually.

And I think that's why it's important to include play in our lives as adults. You know, however that's manifesting in your life. Whether it be team sports, or hobbies, or just giving yourself that freedom of creative process, it can be a powerful change agent and growth.

A: Yeah, the idea of a mask makes me think of play as providing a little bit of a buffer between the most like vulnerable parts of us and whatever it is that we're trying to learn to interact with.

L: Yeah.

A: And then that brings about safety that allows maybe for more growth than could happen if it was made maybe quite so explicit what we were doing. That would make it scarier, yeah.

L: Yeah, it feels a little safer, I think. I agree, just to kind of have it – it's almost like walking beside the experience and then processing it with someone else kind of beside to you, before you have to take that and integrate it.

A: Hmm, you're kind of trying things on, but it's not yet. Doesn't have to be you. Until you find out if it fits, maybe.

L: Yeah.

A: Interesting, I like that.

Um, well what about this huge question: What does humanness mean to you? How do you think about that?

L: Resiliency is the big one that comes to mind. I tend to think of the positive definition of humanness. I think of empathy, relationship building, our ability to be connected and to really feel each other's experiences. But within the resiliency, you know, it includes those darker experiences. Or the, the lye, shall we go back to that. (laughs) The parts of ourselves that maybe are harder to share. I think humanness is also very much about those parts and really allowing our relationship with those parts to ourself, so that we can kind of share relationally with other people in a very authentic way.

A: Mm-hmm. Yeah, do you feel like that those two things interact? Resiliency and being able to share the lye, the less desirable, or what we perceive as less desirable, inside of us?

L: I do. I think when we walk through or move through an experience that's difficult, yeah it's it's being a little more gritty. It's being able to maybe risk, because we're sitting comfortable in our sense of self, and we've had that relationship with all of our parts, so to speak. You know, and whether that includes acceptance, forgiveness, understanding; I think it then allows us to grow, be a little bit braver. I think it allows us to accept those parts in others too.

A: Mm-hmm.

L: You know, instead of just stepping into something with maybe an ideal that isn't attainable. I think sometimes it's the real pieces of people that we connect the most to.

A: Mmm, yeah, something that is maybe less ideal but actually ends up being better, or more special to us.

L: Yeah, I think it's relatable. And I always feel, with all of my clients, just a sense of respect for the courage it takes to step into therapy and look at those experiences. And you know the willingness to kind of explore just who they are, and maybe where they want to be, it's a very courageous process.

A: Well those are profound thoughts Laura, thank you for sharing.

L: Thank you, Allie.

A: Yeah, it's been so fun to interview you in our mini interview series. So, we'll sign off now. But thank you, and I'll get to talk to you soon (laughter).

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Laura MacRae-Serpa, MFTI, CCLS has special interests in supporting children and families navigating adoption and the challenges of chronic illness.

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Allison (Allie) Ramsey is a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern, IMF #94391, working under the professional supervision of Michelle Harwell, PsyD, MFT 50732. Allie works with individuals on a broad range of issues, including anxiety, depression, relational challenges, faith integration, divorce, and aging. 

The Girl in the Arena

For years, my father kept this quote from Theodore Roosevelt hanging in his office. I have read it countless times and it always inspires me to be gritty.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

— Theordore Roosevelt "The Man In The Arena" Excerpt from “Citizenship In A Republic” Speech delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France April 23, 1910

I was struck by my Father’s model of grit from an early age. He taught by example that there is always a reason to show up and enter “the arena.” He embraced possibilities, risks and all, because he understood the value of experience. As a mother, I hope to share my father’s message that success is the process of learning and that winning is simply a byproduct of that over time. I am mindful to validate my children’s processes more then their products. I strive to model compassion for my own errors and shortfalls with the hopes they will learn to be gentle with themselves and others. For although, grit requires moving forward in life with fortitude, it is equally important to recognize when to pause and attend to our wounds.

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-Laura “Wayne Gritzky” MacRae-Serpa, MFTI, CCLS has special interests in supporting children and families navigating adoption and the challenges of chronic illness.

I. Can't. Even. | A Story of Grit

“Grit was the process of knowing that, despite my exhaustion, I had what it took to keep getting up. ”

     It is that time of year when many of my clients are finishing up the school year.  Whether stumbling or triumphant, each teacher, student, administrator, etc. will be done with the bulk of their work for this school year within a months time. Because of this, there is a general feeling of tiredness that is in the air when you step foot on any campus.  I have had many the conversation with high school students and teachers about how they just. can’t. even. with these AP tests and finals.  And I have to say- I get it. As I have spent the majority of my year studying for my licensing exams, I have been reminded of just how hard it is to keep your head in the game when you are exhausted and ready for the end. I recently watched the Life of Pi and, however dramatic this may sound, identified with the feeling that I saw in Pi as he would weather a storm at sea, trying to just hold on while waves are crashing threateningly around him. I remember many moments in the studying process that I would have to convince myself that I was the type of person that did not drown in the storm but held my ground and got back up when the waves calmed. This is where grit comes in. Grit was the process of knowing that, despite my exhaustion, I had what it took to keep getting up.   Remembering this feeling makes me wonder if that exact process is the basis of grit- that having grit may often mean choosing to believe in yourself even when the odds are stacked against you.  And I don’t use the word “process” here lightly. The “I can’t even” days were many- days where the waves started to pick up pace and leave little time to breathe between contact and it seemed like the only option was to succumb and give up. But in these days, I instead chose to trust myself. There were evenings when my energy was low and I knew that the best thing that I could do was to let go for that night and watch 4 episodes of The Office to lighten my spirits.  There were weekends when I chose to stay in to study with the knowledge that my people were cheering for me on the sidelines and were patient to wade through the storm waters with me.  The grit that guided me was the belief that, whether I took a night off or studied for 8 hours straight, I would be okay in the end. Not because I would undoubtedly be successful- but because I had the grit to keep going no matter the outcome.

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Janie "Hermione Slasher" McGlasson, MS, MFT-Intern works extensively with adolescents, adults, and couples and specializes in the areas of attachment, trauma, and grief. 

We all become stronger.

Our team at Michelle Harwell Therapy attended the LA Derby Dolls and I had the opportunity to interview Oblivienne Westwood, captain of the undefeated Varsity Brawlers, aspiring fashion designer, and all around badass woman extraordinaire. She filled me in on all things derby- from its origins and culture to the somewhat democratic process involved in choosing a derby name. More than that, she shared the ways in which being a Derby Doll has empowered her to approach obstacles in her life head on, much in the same way she is forced to do on the roller track on a weekly basis. --Cresson Haughland, MFT Intern at Michelle Harwell Therapy.

CH: So Oblivienne, should I call you Oblivienne? Or would you prefer your actual name? What is your actual name?

OW: Ha! Oblivienne is fine. I go back and forth between Oblivienne, Viv, Amber (my actual name), so much that I forget how I’ve introduced myself to different people.

CH: Got it. Well then, Oblivienne, tell me about how you first got involved with roller derby?

OW: No one starts roller derby because their life is perfect. I’ve been skating for 5 years as of March. I originally started in a league in Orange County, where I was living at the time. Everybody that you talk in derby will have a different story about why they started, but you’ll find a running theme- they were lacking something or something wasn’t right or they were looking for an outlet. Everyone comes in trying to fill a void somewhere in their life.

I was in a really awful relationship with an emotionally-abusive drug addict and I was trying to leave that relationship as well as the friends and lifestyle that came with it. I have always been the kind of person who is trying to find something new or weird or different to do on a Saturday night. I found an ad for the local league....Within 5 minutes of being there I was like I can definitely do this, this looks awesome. I grew up going to mosh pits and being in the punk rock scene and was always the little girl with all the guys trying to beat them up, so I fit right into that. My relationship was falling apart, my life was falling apart and I thought, let’s try something new. And I did. And I haven’t stopped since.

“No one starts roller derby because their life is perfect.”

— Obliviene Westwood

CH: So you were always the girl in the mosh pits wanting to fight with the boys. How does that mentality play into the sport?

OW: When the derby started in Austin it was definitely a punk rock, DIY thing. Now you have people that are stay at home moms, artists, nurses, doctors, so not everyone comes from that background. When it started that was definitely the case though-everyone was into punk rock, had tattoos, drank beer at halftime, but now its no longer that way. It’s more athletic. I was an athlete and a dancer growing up. And you see more of that in the sport now, people that played sports in college, former figure skaters, hockey players and now as adults they don’t have that as an outlet. As adults we don’t have anything like what we had as kids playing sports, so derby serves to fill that void.

CH: I think that’s a great point. Watching last night it was obvious how much athleticism is involved in the game and that isn’t something there’s much opportunity to express once you reach adulthood.

OW: Absolutely, especially not for women. A lot of amateur or pick up sports leagues are geared towards men. A lot of what we do at LA Derby Dolls is empowering women to find that athletic part of themselves again. We also have a lot of people that have never been athletes, so we give them different options, all with the goal of empowering women to find something within them, giving them the confidence to try something new, to be competitive, to light that fire within them and tell them its ok to be competitive, to look at your competitor and say I’m going to hit that person right now. So often women are taught to be a little more docile and this gives them the opportunity to be more confident, to be aggressive, and for that to be ok.

CH: Would you say that gaining some of that confidence and channeling your aggression has translated into other areas of your life? If so, how?

OW: You see it in so many different ways. Derby is a lifestyle. You’re coming into a community that is very open and receptive and we try to help each other as much as we can. When you have a bad day, you have a cheering section at any time. Your teammates encourage you to be more confident when you don’t feel it for yourself. A lot of people that try derby realize they’ve already tried this new crazy thing, so it makes doing other new things seem easier. Like going out for that new job. I actually completely quit my job and it’s ok, I’ll figure it out. In roller derby you have to do a lot of just figuring it out. In a lot of industries it is women against women, a very negative environment. Women tear down other women all the time. Derby encourages women to build one another up instead of tear them down. We have a junior program for girls 7-17 and I think one of the biggest things we do is teach those young girls to be assertive and confident and instill in them to work together instead of talk shit about each other behind their backs.

CH: As a jammer, what is going through your mind while you’re skating into a pack of very strong women whose goal it is to hold you back?

OW: We actually practice going into walls. Everything in your body physically and mentally tells you this is a bad idea, don’t do this. But, you convince yourself that you can do this. Its very important to be thinking about the right things, not dwelling on the negative, or else you’ll never get past that wall. When I’m on the jam line I’m sizing up the wall- the blockers, my potential paths. I don’t want to run straight into the wall of people, my goal is to not fall down and to get away from them as fast as possible. Most of the moves you make as a jammer are to avoid getting hit or not falling down, trying to find the path of least resistance. Sometimes you do get annihilated and blocked in the back and it feels like the longest 60 seconds of your life. We talk a lot about how every jam is only 60 seconds. You can do anything for 60 seconds. But if you dwell on those 60 seconds, the rest of the game will not be successful. You have to set it aside, move from that jam, and start a fresh jam.

CH: What is it that makes you get back up after taking a really terrible hit?

OW: There was one time I got hit so hard that I was literally knocked off the track. And I remember thinking about this girl who, when she fell down, was always so slow to get back up. We would all talk about how she wasn’t useful after getting hit because she was so slow to get back into the game. All I could think was, “ I don’t want to be that girl.” I don’t want to be the girl that can’t keep up. You want to be the girl that can keep up. You want to be successful for your team and your blockers that are doing so much to help you. As a team, we need to play to the weakest person’s weakest, not the strongest person’s strength. If we can build them up in their weakness, we all become stronger.

“As a team, we need to play to the weakest person’s weakest, not the strongest person’s strength. If we can build them up in their weakness, we all become stronger.”

— Oblivienne Westwood

CH: Do you feel like your derby name has its own persona?

OW: I think maybe Oblivienne Westwood is a showier person than I am in real life. When you put your name and jersey on you’re playing a part, you’re doing a job. It is up to me to go out take photos with fans, be outgoing, and cheer myself on when I do well. I have this out of body experience sometimes where I think, “What am I doing?” My real life self would never do that. But I don’t want to be such a different person that it’s hard to track, it is more that Oblivienne is an enhanced version of myself. The most confident version of myself. Having a derby name is like when you’ve had two drinks-you aren’t stumbling around by any means, but you’re just confident enough to get on stage to do some karaoke.

CH: We came up with our names when we were here last night.

OW: Let’s hear yours.

CH: I decided I would be the Nordic Nightmare because I’m Norwegian.

OW: That’s amazing. You could wear a Viking hat, people call you nightmare for short. Cool makeup, all blue, lots of glitter.

CH: I feel really good about that.

CH: Who would you say inspires you?

OW: I don’t really believe in looking up to someone else. I don’t believe you should aspire to be anyone else other than you. My mom had me really young and was very encouraging to be yourself, do what you want to do, make the right choices, don’t rely on other people to help you, be independent. That was one of the best things that could ever have happened to me. I don’t know if I would have moved here to go to art school if she hadn’t encouraged me that I could take on things like that on my own.

CH: Last question. If you could put something on a t-shirt, what would it be?

OW: I want to do a “babe with the power” shirt, a David Bowie reference. It would have a line drawing of a girl’s face and a lightning bolt that says “babe with the power.”

Oblivienne Westwood, captain of the undefeated Varsity Brawlers, aspiring fashion designer, and all around badass woman extraordinaire, find more about her at  https://twitter.com/oblivionwstwood and support your local Derby Doll community. 

Join the LA Derby Doll Community for a bout this weekend (May 21st) and Fresh Meat (new skater) try-outs in June.  

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Cresson Haugland, MS, MFT Intern has worked in both the community mental health and private practice settings and has extensive experience working with families in transition, couples, adolescents, and individuals.